wednes: (Default)
wednes ([personal profile] wednes) wrote2010-05-23 03:22 am
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Can it still be a rant if it's genuinely a question?

I want to talk about grammar. I do that every now and again. I'm well aware that new technology unfailingly brings with it dissenters who rail on with doomsday scenarios about how this cool new thing will destroy us all. I understand that, and I understand that such things should be approached with a fuckton of skepticism. I say this, freely admitting that if something makes sense to me, I'm less likely to be skeptical.

I am genuinely concerned that the Internets are destroying proper grammar. It honestly appears as if things like capitalization, punctuation, verb/subject agreement, and how many dots in an ellipse have eluded far too many people who insist on using written communication despite their lack of skill in it. Go to Lamebook; you will vomit.

It's good for a laugh when someone insists that "We speak enlish in ARE country [sic]." Are people really deciding that the way you use the (or misuse) language should not be a factor in how seriously we take your statement as a whole? Please say it hasn't. I want to be assured that on college applications, resumes, legal correspondence, etc that people are still required to use proper English. Of course, that's if you want to call the midwest American bastardization of the Queen's language...it's a wonder John "Cornelius" Oliver hasn't bitch-slapped every last one of us on her behalf.

I'm not talking about typos, even numerous typos. I'm certainly guilty of them, even with the miracle of spell check. In fact, spell check makes us lax. Not being sentient, it simply doesn't know what we're trying to say. If you're trying to masticate and it comes out massacre, I have to wonder how your grandmother is going to take that. At the very least, she'd think you didn't have good attention to detail. LOL I'm talking about people who aren't even trying. Why aren't they trying? How do we make them try? Why isn't it common knowledge that we try in order to respect our reader--so they don't have to get a headache from trying to figure out what the hell we're trying to say? I feel like I'm taking CRAZY PILLS.

I thought this was limited to kids. It's not. Lots of kids do this, but plenty of kids type just fine and use proper English, maybe with a bit o' slang. But who doesn't, right? I suspect that a lot of kids are doing it on purpose, but I'd be curious to know how many of them really think there's a word spelled L-U-D-A-C-R-I-S.

I was chatting with the husband of a former classmate on Facebook recently. He was about my age. Not knowing who he was, I expressed surprise at finding out he was a native English speaker. His language skills were just that horrible. His response? This is Facebook, not a writing class. Am I the only one who understands that the purpose of a writing class is so you can learn how to communicate properly OUTSIDE of writing class? It's to teach you a skill you can then utilize out in the world. Do some people honestly believe we only do things if we're being evaluated or praised for them? It's like when people say "If you're an atheist, how come you're not out robbing and killing people." As if a fear of divine punishment is the only reason not to do these things. Grrr?!? Communicating is one of, if not the most important thing we do in our lives. As my prof Wally used to say, "Communication is an intentional, transactional, symbolic process used to manage one's environment." That THAT, Guernica!

I know some of you are with me on this. Are we in actual danger of losing our connection with proper grammar, spelling, etc? I recognize that language evolves, and that texting changed things. But if you've got a QWERTY board, you really have no excuse, even if it's on your phone. Try. Just...try. If you've got time to post to the internet what you had for lunch, you have time to write the words "tuna melt."

[identity profile] hellamama.livejournal.com 2010-05-23 12:44 pm (UTC)(link)
Amen, sister! Thank GOD I'm not the only one who feels this way. I absolutely refuse to take things seriously if the people presenting them can't be bothered to spell and punctuate properly. It makes my brain hurt.

[identity profile] hellamama.livejournal.com 2010-05-23 12:46 pm (UTC)(link)
In fact, I frequently stop what I'm doing to check the dictionary to see if I'm spelling something correctly. It takes no time at all, really. Everyone makes mistakes, but most need to put forth more effort!

[identity profile] wednes.livejournal.com 2010-05-23 08:03 pm (UTC)(link)
Yup. The most baffling is that when you try to convey that message online, people act like you're a crazy old lady shaking her fist at kids so they'll stay off her lawn. C'mon.
(deleted comment)

[identity profile] wednes.livejournal.com 2010-05-23 08:10 pm (UTC)(link)
I strongly concur on "literally."

I think you're definitely on to something in re: written communication being more common and therefore the variance in literacy is more visible. I don't want fine writing to go the way of say, stamp collecting. IE something enjoyed by a nerdy few but not of much interest to the average person. I also worry about the rise of audiobooks even as I produce them for my own work.

[identity profile] fflo.livejournal.com 2010-05-23 03:01 pm (UTC)(link)
Somehow the first thing that pops in to my head to say here is how surprised I was, years ago when I first started reading old postcards, how lousy the command of the language was in many of their writers. The hayday of postcards was roughly 1910 to 1915, and I guess I'd thought, from all those old grammars and notions of strictness in one-room schoolhouses, along with the decrying of the lessening of standards, that people of my grandmother's era would have not only quite practiced handwriting but also refined skills with grammar, punctuation, syntax, etc.

It was a happy surprise, I'd say.

I think we went through a time in which we weren't communicating in writing so much, with phones, say, eclipsing letters, and TV and movies added to books. When I was in high school, after all, it was thought we'd learned to touch type only to be secretaries or to type papers in college faster. So here we are, more of us writing casually and reading each other's written words, and I'm thinking it may just show more, what variously "lettered" people we are.

Not that I don't have my own decryings about the internet & written language. High up there, of all things, is remorse that HTML's cost us the two spaces after the endmark at the end of a sentence. Doesn't matter much most of the time, even with all lowercase letters, but sometimes, even with capitalizing, it mucks it up. Like we live here near the D. B. B. King might have played there many times.

I'm also not happy we're losing "literally"--- to mean, plenty often, its connotatiive opposite "figuratively". But that's not cuz everybody and his cousin is typing in public these days.

[identity profile] peteralway.livejournal.com 2010-05-23 06:31 pm (UTC)(link)
I was going to make a similar point--the mangling of the language is nothing new. What's new is that we get to see how more people mangle the language than we used to. It used to be that you'd only see the raw, unedited writing of a few close friends and relatives. Even typed rants in the letters-to-the-editor of a newspaper or magazine passed under an editor's eyes. We now can see the writings of the unwashed masses.

(Of course, I have a pet peeve that has been used by people who should know better--the n-year anniversary. As if the root of annual weren't already in the word.)

p.s.

[identity profile] fflo.livejournal.com 2010-05-23 03:08 pm (UTC)(link)
Let me add that I like the line from Professor Wally. I plan to link it to my discomfort with online dating offers that come in jarbled prose. It's not just being a snob to be put off by people who can't be bother to proofread even their online dating user names, as one friend of mine is particularly outraged by. How much care somebody seems to have been taking with a piece of writing does say something about how carefully we might be expected to try to take in their thoughts.

Then there's also putting too fine a point on it, neurotically. Or to be an ass, as meticulousness sometimes does that too, or seems to me to!

Re: p.s.

[identity profile] fflo.livejournal.com 2010-05-23 03:09 pm (UTC)(link)
Just saw that I committed that gender-avoiding pronoun antecedent agreement error just above. But look--- I'm not correcting for that one. Just fessing up. :)

Re: p.s.

[identity profile] wednes.livejournal.com 2010-05-23 08:14 pm (UTC)(link)
Wally was an awesome prof--probably still is as I have not heard that he has passed on or anything.

I have no need for dating sites anymore. ;-] But I do notice that on Facebook profiles as well, the lack of proofing. I'm always so embarrassed when I find a typo on my own page; but I guess that doesn't apply to everyone.

[identity profile] mella349.livejournal.com 2010-05-23 03:46 pm (UTC)(link)
I COMPLETELY AGREE!!!!

[identity profile] wednes.livejournal.com 2010-05-23 08:16 pm (UTC)(link)
Cool.

[identity profile] cmdavi-70.livejournal.com 2010-05-23 09:16 pm (UTC)(link)
I'm open to the fact that language is fluid and officially changes over time (though generally very slowly), and I have some appreciation for slang and word play ("the internets" being one such example). OTOH, I see people trying to make the argument that because language is fluid, old fuddie duddies like us need to be open to it when we complain that so much inTeRNet sPk Izz unrEEdibull. There's a huge difference between taking poetic license and being lazy or ignorant--or worse, deliberately trying to annoy the reader.

[identity profile] wednes.livejournal.com 2010-05-23 09:24 pm (UTC)(link)
Yes, exactly.
I knew you would feel me on this. ;-]

[identity profile] raggedrose.livejournal.com 2010-05-24 01:48 am (UTC)(link)
Every point I had has already been made.

I agree completely, and more to the point, kids learn to express themselves in writing by learning from the examples around them. By deciding that proofreading/copy editing is an unneccessary expense, the publishing industry is shaping the way we'll communicate in the future, not just the present. It isn't a pretty sight. Yes, we *are* in actual danger of losing our connection with proper grammar, spelling, etc.

But it always has been this way. When I read something that was written a century or so ago, and is still in print now, I find myself relaxing, and getting carried away by the prose. Simple words, well chosen, will always have power. I just wonder how many of our current books will still be around in a century.

[identity profile] wednes.livejournal.com 2010-05-24 03:44 am (UTC)(link)
Simple words, well chosen, will always have power.

Well said.
groovesinorbit: jrr and edith discussing (jrr & edith)

[personal profile] groovesinorbit 2010-05-24 01:14 pm (UTC)(link)
Just chiming in to agree with everyone. Yes, language is fluid, and it's fun to watch it change a lot of the time. But to not care that what you're writing is readable and understandable? Unacceptable.

[identity profile] wednes.livejournal.com 2010-05-24 05:52 pm (UTC)(link)
Indeed!